I finished McLaren’s new book a couple of weeks ago. As usual, I enjoyed the way he challenged the norm and opened up new ways of looking at a subject. In this case, the norm he’s challenging is the way we Christians typically use the concept of “hell” in our evangelism and discipleship.
Most of what McLaren does in this book is deconstructive. He does a good job of deconstructing the standard evangelical view of hell. He really doesn’t provide much of an alternative option. He doesn’t tell us what he believes about hell. I think that’s ok, for now. Sooner or later, he will have to start doing some constructive theology or even his biggest fans are going to get frustrated.
Right now, deconstruction is necessary. I have no doubt that we have let writings such as Dante’s “Inferno” and Milton’s “Paradise Lost” and “Regained,” as well as Platonic thought, have more of an influence on our beliefs about Heaven and Hell than we have Scripture.
For a detailed, alternative look at what the Bible says about hell, check out Edward Fudge’s The Fire That Consumes: A Biblical and Historical Study of the Doctrine of Final Punishment. I read “Fire” several years ago and the majority of Fudge’s arguments have stuck with me. McLaren references it in “The Last Word.”
Here’s my favorite quote from “The Last Word” written through a character named Chip:
In my way of telling the gospel, what you call the modern Western way, there were always two key questions:
1. If you were to die tonight, do you know for certain that you’d go to be with God in heaven?
2. If Jesus returned today, would you be ready to meet God?
Jesus is important because he paid for your sins when he died on the cross, so if you die tonight, or if Jesus returns today, you’ll be forgiven and can enter heaven.
But in this new understanding of the gospel, two very different questions come to mind:
1. If you were to live another fifty years, what kind of person would you like to become–and how will you become that kind of person?
2. If Jesus doesn’t return for ten thousand or ten million years, what kind of world do we want to create?
Here Jesus is important because he leads you and forms you to become a better and better person, and the kind of people who truly follow his way will create a good and beautiful world.
The first set of questions, which used to satisfy me, don’t anymore, at least not on their own. I’m realizing that both sets of questions have validity, and the second may be more important. I guess that’s obvious to you, but it’s just dawning on me.
Chip
I love the second set of questions, but I don’t think we should completely jettison the first set. The early church lived with a kind of eschatological urgency that we seldom see duplicated today. At the same time, the world has been spinning now for 2000 years after the ascension of Christ and it may very well continue to spin for 2000 more. So we need to find ways to keep both sets of questions present and in tension with each other.
Telling Stories, Asking Questions, Learning Lessons
So, what do you think hell is like Wade? I know 2 weeks ago we talked about the afterlife more on the good end of things. So what abou tthe bad end of things???
At first I had a problem with McLaren’s position on hell, because he seemed too univeralist, although I did agree with his point in ANKOC that it isn’t any of our business who goes to hell and who doesn’t…it’s up to God to decide. But he’s kind of one me over…not to univeralism, but I at least can make the following statements:
1. I’ve always believed that the images of “pearly gates” and golden streets”, etc. aren’t literal, they are metaphors that attempt to communicate that heaven is bigger and better than anything we can come up with. Heaven is being with God.
2. Hell is existing totally without God. Maybe the images of hell as involving flames, fire, brimstone and devouring worms are equally metaphorical trying to communicate that being totally removed from the presence of God is worse than any torture we can come up with.
Micah–I’m not sure what hell will be like. I’m still in more of a deconstructive mode myself. The most I’m willing and able to say right now is that new creation in the age to come is going to blow our minds. I don’t want to miss out on it. I don’t want anybody else to miss out on it either. Hell is missing out on it.
Good point Wade! And equally good point Neal.
Yeah, I don’t know if I can see hell as being the fire and gnashing of teeth that it has been taught as for years. like you said, I think its more of a absents of God, type thing. Which just doesn’t sound too much fun…
I seriously don’t want to miss out on the after party!
I never trusted Milton. He wrote “Paradise” when he was single. When he got married he wrote “Paradise Lost.” After his wife died he wrote “Paradise Regained.” I think I’ve made my point…
And what is hell like? Since I’m not going I haven’t been all that interested in it. Plus, I’ve been to Arkansas and live in Detroit so…
nevermind.
I never would have knowingly purchased a book on the topic of hell. But, since I benefitted so greatly from three of Brian’s previous books, I jumped for this latest one as soon as it came out. Was not disappointed. Hell is one of the reasons that people become skeptics and atheists. It seems unfair to many that infinite and everlasting pain should result from finite transgression. I’m intrigued by Origen’s apocatastasis concept, the eventual restoration of all things.
I think that the two sets of questions are great. It seems that we – the Church – have been attempting to sell fire insurance for years now, and people are getting fed up with it. Sure, the eternal destination is important, but in the end the fire insurance pitch puts an emphasis on the individual rather than on the Redemer, so the pitch sounds hollow. In other words, the response to the message takes on the attitude of, “I don’t really care about the God who created me, I just don’t want to go to hell.” Also, in an age when most people seem spiritually ambiguous or at least ambiguous in their beliefs about spiritual matters, the focus has turned to the here and now. The question being asked is, “What will this belief system do for me and my community while I’m alive and while the world goes on after I’m gone?” The second set of questions certainly addresses these concerns, and they are a valid set of concerns as are the concerns the first set of questions embody.
At some point, though, it seems to me that we must get followers of Jesus to the place where God is enough, where our beliefs will impact the world or they may not, but God is enough; my life may become better or it may not, but God is enough; Jesus may come back in a Left Behind sort of way, or he may not, but God is enough; It doesn’t matter what heaven will be like because God will be there, and He is enough.
I can’t tell you the number of times in the last ten years of following Jesus that I’ve become frustrated, confused, overwhelemed, and wanting to walk away from the whole Christianity thing, but I can’t because Jesus holds the words of truth and life for me.
Wade — Interesting…that’s PRECISELY the excerpt from the book that resonated with me. I’ve been reading that little section to anyone who will listen. McLaren continues to take us beyond the idea of Christianity as simply “getting your butt into heaven,” as he’s fond of saying.
And I think deconstruction is just fine for now. First things first. I am learning to be more comfortable with the discomfort/ambiguity that comes with deconstruction. When I rush too quickly to asking “so what do I believe now?”, I find, sadly, that I tend to shy away from healthy deconstruction altogether.
When I finished the book, I picked up the phone and called a community service organization in my little town near Atlanta and set up a meeting with the director. I want to see how my family & I can get involved in serving the poor nearest my backyard. Simply needing to save myself from hell has never motivated me to do such a thing. And making this comment on your blog reminds me that I still need to stop by and see the guy! 🙂
Wade, thanks for mentioning The Fire That Consumes! I heard you speak at the Howard Publishing luncheon at Pepperdine this past week and appreciated your remarks.
Cordially,
Edward