Here is a fictional conversation between two guys who go to church together.
Norm: George, you and I have been attending church together for a couple of years, and I’ve never found out what you do.
George: Well, Norm, I guess you’d say that my work in life is to be an evangelist. I want to tell people about Jesus Christ.
N: Oh, I didn’t know you were in religious work. Somehow or other, I thought you worked for some company in the city.
G: Oh yeah, I do work for Marconi and Sons. They hired me to be a salesman. That’s what I do to make a living. But my real job is to talk to everybody in my industry about Jesus. You might say that I work to exist, but I live to evangelize.
N: Boy, I admire your commitment. I don’t think I’ve ever thought of work that way.
G: I think that’s what every Christian should be about. I want to give myself to what is eternal. Marconi and Sons are in the wholesale food business. I don’t want to give my life to selling fish or cakes or milk or cheese. I want to give my life to what lasts. Christ is what really matters. Your job isn’t important. It’s whether or not on your job you tell people about Jesus.
N: So you see yourself as some kind of missionary. Is that it?
G: Yes, Jesus said go into the all the world and preach the gospel. My world is the wholesale food business. It’s my mission field. Why give yourself to something that really doesn’t last much longer than fish?
There was a time when I would have said that George was really spiritual and that we all should have the same approach to life and work as he does. Now, I think that George has a limited understanding of the gospel and almost no understanding of the purpose of work.
What do you think?
Telling Stories, Asking Questions, Learning Lessons
I think that is the spirit that should drive the life of the Christian…anything less and we aren’t living up to the calling we all have. Great spirit here, Wade…this is the type of leadership that changes the world.
I’m really interested in this discussion because I’ve struggled with how to get this across to Christians battling how to live Christ at work.
I thought as I read the conversation, “Boy, I’d get annoyed quickly if I worked with this guy.” Can you imagine?
I’m wondering if the story of Esther has anything to contribute to this discussion?
Is your issue with his method of evangelism, or his job not making any contribution to our world becoming the Kingdom?
I like fish, therefore I hope George continues to do his job well, lest the quality of fish disappear from the shelf at my supermarket.
I cannot begin to tell you how many in our local congregation that have become Christians because the first contact was made with those at work. Being an example at work is vital. Being known at work as one with a heart of compassion. Conversations at lunch when someoene you work with is confused , broken hearted , etc. So many opportunities to show a Christ -like spirit everyday at work.
Some additional thoughts. While you work you are being salt and light and demonstate how a person can work in the world and be honest and hard working and morally pure. Also , the money you make to support good works is very important. Supporting your family and them helping those in need. Giving to keep mission efforts productive. There are no unimportant members of the church. Every penny that is given is important.Every contribution helps. That puts a lot of dignity to the everyday grind of work , especailly when it seems like what you are doing is not important to the advancement of the kingdom.Your everyday , consistent life and example is vital.
Josh,
I think you can be as focused on evangelism as our pal George and still not be obnoxious. I believe the point here is that we are all somewhere, and we don’t have to go somewhere else or be someone else, or do something else to make an impact in the Kingdom. George will work at his job, make friends, influence his peers, model Christ-like behavior, comfort during crisis, celebrate w/o envy during the success of others, and offer the invites to church and have the individual conversations with people necessary for someone to cross the line from unbelief to faith.
All the while, he is a normal guy, acting relatively normally, except he has a great dose of perspective from Jesus, who calls us to go everywhere and make an impact. God knows where you are, and you don’t have to go somewhere to make an impact. You can do it right where you are.
Zac,
I do see your point. It’s just that I didn’t see George as falling into your descriptions. I read him as the opposite of what you described. I had envisioned a fella that solicited Bible studies every break, made sure that everyone knew that he knew the Bible, etc.
Maybe you’re right about George and I’m not. The gospel is about modeling the way of Jesus and not just talking about him, comforting during crisis, celebrating w/o envy, etc.
Like I said, this topic has been a struggle.
I guess I am not sure exactly what you mean then. The gospel is about telling people the good news about Jesus, first and foremost, but it is hardly received well if people act like what you fear George is doing (the overtly pious religion, smug self-righteousness)
I am not getting that vibe from this convo at all. George isn’t talking to an unbeliever here, he is talking to a fellow believer and George correctly reminds us that our occupations do not make a difference in eternity unless we choose to make it so. Fish (or bus driving, accounting, sports, retail, management, etc) do not last forever, but impacts on people’s lives for the Kingdom do. George wants to make his life count, and he is encouraging his friend to do the same.
I honestly do not understand where the struggle is. What is the main issue you have with this discussion? No hostility at all, I am very curious about your perspective.
I guess I am missing something. What is George doing wrong? Maybe I am missing the spirit here. Shouldn’t a person be about reaching those around him for Christ?
My problem with George is not that he wants to tell others about Jesus, rather it is the attitude he has toward his work. Particularly this part: I want to give my life to what lasts. Christ is what really matters. Your job isn’t important. It’s whether or not on your job you tell people about Jesus.
I believe that the work we do is “good” and not just because it provides us with money or opportunities to evangelize. It’s good because we were created in the image of God to cultivate the earth and build God-honoring cultures (aka the cultural mandate). All legitimate human work contributes to this effort, or at least it should.
It seems to me that by emphasizing the great commission over the cultural mandate, George has abandoned a huge part of what it means to be human in order to be a good Christian.
That is interesting…but the essence of humanity in its fullest expression is being connected with God. The focus on the great commission allows others the opportunity to experience that fullness of life.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if a Christian works hard, is a good employee, and contributes to the cultural mandate of Christianity like you say, but they do not make an impact on people in eternity, then they really have focused on things that were not as important. It also seems to me that focusing on the great commission and fulfilling it goes hand in hand with affecting the culture in a positive way. However, fulfilling the cultural mandate does not satisfy the great commission.
Ultimately, work is important because people are important. No matter what we do we can impact eternity.
And I would certainly agree that George is limiting the impact of his work by other comments. His vision is too small. It does matter how we work because we work for God, ultimately, so even if we have days with no ministry opportunities we must work well to not only have credibility when we share about God but also because not working hard would be dishonoring to God.
Wade offered some great insight. Zac you asked why the struggle. I know that we must ultimately tell others about Jesus. No arguments here. However some can get extremely pushy about it as if they were selling a product. I would not appreciate someone bringing Jesus to work like they would a new business venture they’ve discovered. But I missed it on that point because that’s not really where this struggle hinges. It’s not about evangelism per se. My struggle comes from what I feel as a minister when trying to get across to people they should see their lives as God honoring all the time. I struggle with how to express that.
I keep going back to Esther. She contributed to God’s movements to reconcile the world to himself not through initiatives to prosyletize the gentile world to Judaism but through her devotion to justice and humanity as queen.
Thanks for the discussion. I’ve changed directions a lot and gained from it.
A service person the other day decided to share his witness with me, and I almost apostasized from the faith (to Buddhism I think). But perhaps I am just to steeped in a postmodern schema of ultimate autonomy.
I think today’s church is going to need to do a whole lot more to be seen as ‘pushy’. Maybe there are a few Christians who are over the top in your face type people, but the majority of Christians I meet are so reluctant to be viewed as ‘pushy’ that they say nothing at all. Maybe we’re far from being ‘pushy’ today. Maybe the joy that is Jesus in our hearts will overflow so that we can’t help but bring him up in conversation since Jesus is our life.
The fear of being seen as pushy cannot be used as an excuse to do nothing. Instead, we need to re-evaluate how and why we do evangelism.
“It seems to me that by emphasizing the great commission over the cultural mandate, George has abandoned a huge part of what it means to be human in order to be a good Christian.”
Love ya, Wade, but I would put that book back on the shelf. 🙂
Love you too Brad. It might not hurt you to take a book off the shelf every now and then.
What book? That comment is fine, but I would like to know how you get to that point. What cultural mandate is more significant to the believer than the great commission, which is not optional? You are presenting some ideas but not really fleshing them out.
I’m not saying cultural mandate is more important than great commission. They should work hand in hand. One should invigorate the other.
A great book that talks about this is “The Other Six Days” by Paul Stevens.
Easy there, bro. My only point, not all that vigorous here, is that you maybe find a better way to elevate the concept of work without putting it up against engaging people for the sake of Jesus. Both deserve respect, but not seemingly pitting one against the other. That’s all I meant.
I does read a bit as well.
The “cultural mandate” states that we are to be “fruitful and multiply” and “subdue the earth.” Meaning… we are to have children and we are to govern over the land or bring it under our control. I don’t see how that supersedes the Great commission given to us by Jesus Christ himself. I know Wade that you say the two should go hand in hand, but don’t the two naturally go hand in hand. We are ‘repopulators’ by nature, we are controllers by nature. I don’t think we are tellers or the good news by nature. That is something we need to work on, and it is hard work.
I don’t think that we should down talk George just because we think he has a limited view of the Gospel. As far as he knows he is doing his best to live up to the command of Christ and I highly doubt if he is in fact a Christ follower that he is a lousy worker. If we are to call ourselves “Christians” then we should naturally do everything as working unto the Lord. Everything we have is his including our work ethic. Just some thoughts.
I agree Kyler. My mistake was not reading the end part of the analysis on the convo. Totally missed the point because of it! I won’t do that again.
It just seems to me that the focus on the great commission allows us to fulfill the cultural mandate as well, but a focus on the cultural mandate puts a de-emphasis on the great commission in function, it also gives people an excuse to not reach out. That cannot be! Like someone else said before…most Christians have a long way to go before they will ever be considered “pushy” about their faith.
i’m in Japan right now on a study abroad program. less than 1% of Japan is in any way at all Christian. I have no wife. I cannot be fruitful and multiply the earth at the moment, nor am I subduing it very well. any tips on what i should do?
that is besides try the sushi (it is superb), go to the ocean (10 minutes from my host family’s home), and climb mt. fuji (quite a hike).
how would you take Jesus to a culture that is resistant to the Gospel? do they need to hear the gospel if they are good people? any thoughts…
Here is a crude example from a tiny voice. You are hired as a marketing advertiser. You know your product inside and out, you swear by it and totally belive in it! What would happen, however, if you did not know your market? You could not relate to the market that you are trying to reach. Regardless of how well you know your “product” or believe in its value, you will likely be ineffective in your efforts to penetrate the market since you are unable to relate to it. Furthermore, imagine not being willing to learn your market or relate to it, but simply insisting that the market understand you and your values. You would likely fail in your efforts. George firmly believes in his “product” but doesn’t seem to relate to or believe in his cultural mandate. This results in a cultural disconnect, which inevitably isolates him and his “product”.
(Forgive the crude analogy… I know Jesus is not a product).
Dave brings up a good point. He’s out of his culture, so how does he make an impact? My answer would be with care and compassion, relating to the culture that he’s currently in. There is little hope he can impact their lives by trying to relate to them with a Western culture approach. But what if he learns to relate to them on their terms? What if, by LIVING it, he shows them something that would be of value to them in their culture? Do you think they would be intersted? Do you believe that Jesus transcends culture?
To me, that’s the beginning. Our job is to help and inspire people to open the door, and believe that God will step in at that point. But if we don’t engage people in their culture, we are not anywhere close to their “door”.
Lastly, what if George really believed that selling fish and doing his best in ALL that he does is valuable and everlasting? Are you interested in people that have a zest for life… a vigor and energy in all that they do? Aren’t you inspired by those people? Wouldn’t you want to know what drives them to live such a full life? Wouldn’t you also believe in them more than the person that can’t find God in ALL that they do?
I know of a highly evangelistic congregation that did a survey a few years ago and one of the questions was, “What is the greatest commandment?” I’m a little fuzzy on the exact numbers, but some huge portion chose “Go into all the world…”
I appreciate the point here and have lived a large portion of my life like George. While I don’t think I’d have ever missed that question, subjugating it to “Love God with all you have and are and love other folks” seems worth doing.
Would anyone agree that the kingdom is by nature subversive? You don’t have to be overtly “evangelistic” to be passionate and active carrying the message of the Christ to the world.