hmmmm … I think I enjoyed N.T.’s jokes more than his theology. If God is going to do it that way, great. But a two-stage post mortem reality? Haven’t come across that one yet.
N.T. Wright’s lectures and writings helped give footing and form to my faith after nearly becoming an agnostic. I’m glad to see he can hold his own with Colbert.
I liked his interview, but Cookie Monster was really the best guest on last night. I did find it interesting that he seems to be guiding our gaze not just past this life but past the afterlife – I feel the church’s bigger problems come from forgetting that our responsibility is to live this life right here right now in His name.
Look forward to reading the book. N.T. has been a great inspiration in my spiritual life. I think “two-stage post mortem reality” is missing the point. Wright is calling us beyond the mentality that the purpose of Christianity is to survive in this “fallen” world in order to receive God’s blessings and get to heaven. Wright’s “recreation” and “new heaven” references are referring to the fact that the Kingdom of Heaven is here and right now. This gives new meaning and relevancy to our lives, calling us far beyond complacent Christianity. N.T., along with Emergents, are painting a different kind of Christianity that brings hope and inspiration to our lives. I love it and can’t get enough.
Derek,
“Two-stage post mortem reality” were his words, not mine. I like what he is trying to get at, bringing us to the here and now in regard to the kingdom of God. It’s just a bit of a stretch using the “new Jerusalem” from Revelation as the “stage two” reality after heaven. (At least I think that’s what he is saying.)
The whole message of Revelation seems to be about the here and now kingdom of God, the kingdom “from heaven”, above all earthly kingdoms, eternal in nature, victorious over Satan. N.T. seems to be taking Revelation’s here and now kingdom message and applying it to a future, one day, after it’s all over event or time. That seems opposite of what he is trying to accompish in the first place.
Brad,
From reading N.T. Wright quite a bit, I think what he would say is that much of Revelation has already happened or is happening, and it’s just the last two chapters of Revelation that is yet to come. But until it comes, we now are as God’s heirs working from the power of the Holy Spirit trying to reflect the New Jerusalem here and now; In other words trying to bring “thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.”
Thanks for the link, Phil. I’m with what N.T. is trying to do, I just go about it from a different biblical perspective.
From Revelation 21:2, 9, it seems clear (at least to me) the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, is the bride of the Lamb, and that be us, those who belong to Jesus. Call it the kingdom, call it the church, call it all believers, call it the people of God, but it’s here, it’s now, and it’s us, not a place or future time. Verse 3 calls it God dwelling among men.
I thought this was funny. Did you catch it when he said about Anglicans, “We don’t have any theology of our own, if something’s true, we believe it.” And I thought us cofc’ers were the only ones arrogant enough to think we had it all right. Interesting.
The term “two-stage post-mortem reality” is his way of trying to explain that our ultimate goal isn’t heaven. The question shouldn’t be whether we know we will go to heaven when Jesus comes, because we won’t. Our treasure is in heaven, and from there. Those who die now go to be with Christ, if they are in Christ, and at the resurrection of the dead there will be New Heavens and New Earth.
At least, that’s my perspective and what I find N.T. Wright saying, and what I believe is scriptural.
As for his reference to Anglicans not having any theology of their own, I’ve always thought it was funny when he said that. He has said it several times in different ways, but he always sounds like a Stone-Campbellite when he does.
i do like some of what n.t.says,although,
if and when that collar (that preistly garb) comes
off.
he might look more like a “christian of the way”.
than an authorised historian of cultural “hermeneutics,”
Telling Stories, Asking Questions, Learning Lessons
hmmmm … I think I enjoyed N.T.’s jokes more than his theology. If God is going to do it that way, great. But a two-stage post mortem reality? Haven’t come across that one yet.
N.T. Wright’s lectures and writings helped give footing and form to my faith after nearly becoming an agnostic. I’m glad to see he can hold his own with Colbert.
I liked his interview, but Cookie Monster was really the best guest on last night. I did find it interesting that he seems to be guiding our gaze not just past this life but past the afterlife – I feel the church’s bigger problems come from forgetting that our responsibility is to live this life right here right now in His name.
Tom Wright was great but Cookie Monster was amazing!
That was awesome. I hope that gets out to some people who need it. Its really cool that a positive Christian message got out through that show!
Look forward to reading the book. N.T. has been a great inspiration in my spiritual life. I think “two-stage post mortem reality” is missing the point. Wright is calling us beyond the mentality that the purpose of Christianity is to survive in this “fallen” world in order to receive God’s blessings and get to heaven. Wright’s “recreation” and “new heaven” references are referring to the fact that the Kingdom of Heaven is here and right now. This gives new meaning and relevancy to our lives, calling us far beyond complacent Christianity. N.T., along with Emergents, are painting a different kind of Christianity that brings hope and inspiration to our lives. I love it and can’t get enough.
Derek,
“Two-stage post mortem reality” were his words, not mine. I like what he is trying to get at, bringing us to the here and now in regard to the kingdom of God. It’s just a bit of a stretch using the “new Jerusalem” from Revelation as the “stage two” reality after heaven. (At least I think that’s what he is saying.)
The whole message of Revelation seems to be about the here and now kingdom of God, the kingdom “from heaven”, above all earthly kingdoms, eternal in nature, victorious over Satan. N.T. seems to be taking Revelation’s here and now kingdom message and applying it to a future, one day, after it’s all over event or time. That seems opposite of what he is trying to accompish in the first place.
Or not…. 🙂
Brad,
From reading N.T. Wright quite a bit, I think what he would say is that much of Revelation has already happened or is happening, and it’s just the last two chapters of Revelation that is yet to come. But until it comes, we now are as God’s heirs working from the power of the Holy Spirit trying to reflect the New Jerusalem here and now; In other words trying to bring “thy kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven.”
For further reading you can read one of his artcles here:
http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Biblical_Worship.htm
Thanks for the link, Phil. I’m with what N.T. is trying to do, I just go about it from a different biblical perspective.
From Revelation 21:2, 9, it seems clear (at least to me) the Holy City, the New Jerusalem, is the bride of the Lamb, and that be us, those who belong to Jesus. Call it the kingdom, call it the church, call it all believers, call it the people of God, but it’s here, it’s now, and it’s us, not a place or future time. Verse 3 calls it God dwelling among men.
I thought this was funny. Did you catch it when he said about Anglicans, “We don’t have any theology of our own, if something’s true, we believe it.” And I thought us cofc’ers were the only ones arrogant enough to think we had it all right. Interesting.
Brad,
The term “two-stage post-mortem reality” is his way of trying to explain that our ultimate goal isn’t heaven. The question shouldn’t be whether we know we will go to heaven when Jesus comes, because we won’t. Our treasure is in heaven, and from there. Those who die now go to be with Christ, if they are in Christ, and at the resurrection of the dead there will be New Heavens and New Earth.
At least, that’s my perspective and what I find N.T. Wright saying, and what I believe is scriptural.
As for his reference to Anglicans not having any theology of their own, I’ve always thought it was funny when he said that. He has said it several times in different ways, but he always sounds like a Stone-Campbellite when he does.
i do like some of what n.t.says,although,
if and when that collar (that preistly garb) comes
off.
he might look more like a “christian of the way”.
than an authorised historian of cultural “hermeneutics,”
blessings
rich in ca.