I can’t help but come back to the world religions discussion. If you’re joining us late you can find previous posts here, here, and here.
While I haven’t done a lot of in-depth research on specific world religions–I’ve noodled around in books about Buddhism and I’ve listened to an audio book about Islam–I have spent some time thinking about Christianity’s relationship to the other great religions of the world. (Please don’t freak out because I called them “great.” It’s a figure of speech.)
Somewhere along the way, someone reduced the possibilities of people from other religions being saved down to three. Of course it’s more complicated than this, but three options are easy to remember and I think these three cover the bases pretty well. These are rendered from the Christian point of view using the traditional Christian definition of salvation as “going to heaven when you die.”
Possibility #1: “Everybody is in.” This is good old fashioned universalism. No one is really “lost” in the ultimate sense of the word.
Possibility #2: “It’s Jesus or else.” If you have not intentionally called Jesus “Lord” and been covered by his saving blood, then you have absolutely no hope of salvation outside of Christ. You can assume everyone you meet who is not a Christian is “lost” and doomed to spend eternity in hell if they don’t repent and believe the good news about Jesus.
Possibility #3: “Preach the gospel and let God be God.” Tell the story of Jesus, announce the good news of his resurrection, invite everyone you know to trust him and follow his teachings, but leave room for God to save whomever he chooses. You can assume that every non-Christian you meet needs Jesus, but you don’t have to pass judgment on where they’ll spend eternity.
What is your response to these three possibilities?
Telling Stories, Asking Questions, Learning Lessons
Wow, I can’t believe I’m first to comment on this. Someone will probably get in while I’m typing. 😀
To me, #3 is the only one that makes sense. The others seems to tell God how he should judge, or at least tell God how he said he would judge.
#3 also allows for the possibility of the truth actually being #1 or #2. In other words, God may choose to save everyone or he may exclude all who don’t follow Jesus. We have verses that would seem to hint at both, at least on some level. If you hold to #1, then #2 is impossible and visa-versa and #3 seems like a cop out.
No matter what the truth of the matter is, it’s God’s business, not mine.
#1 leaves us asking why anyone should live according to anyone else’s prescribed guidelines. I don’t think this is necessarily an unanswerable question, but one we have to deal with. Perhaps a moral dilemma.
If we accept #2, I hope we will be bold and honest enough to wrestle earnestly with the questions about God that arise–a theological dilemma.
With #3, I’ve heard it said, the ambiguity isn’t very conducive to day-to-day choices for the individual and the church. I’d call this a practical dilemma.
Without saying any more favoring any of the three, I do believe that none of them present a very easy road.
A small section of the churches of Christ in Canada hashed this question out some recently at another blog, including some friends of mine and some of the ministers who I respect the most. Readers here might find it valuable here. It’s here.
I’ll dispense with #1 by saying that I think Christ dealt with that possibility pretty clearly. To consider that the teaching of other religions are equal to Christ is paramount to considering one’s own discernment and understanding to be above Christ. What other religion has thousands of years of prophecy and fulfillment to validate it?
I actually think that #2 and #3 are very similar . . . as long as a person recognizes one thing. I am not God . . . and neither is any other person. It is not my responsibility to judge those outside Christ (Lk 6:37-42). (However, when it comes to the body of Christ, Paul certainly seems to say that we have a responsibility to use Godly judgment with each other in his letters. But that’s a different situation altogether.) I digress….
Having said that, I just don’t think that the attitude of judgment and arrogance implied in #2 is very effective at winning people over. At least not in the current environment.
One positive about #3 is that is encourages those already in Christ to be continually reminded and transformed by the good news of Christ. If that message is on our lips all the time (and not reserved only for those we deem to be outside the faith), wouldn’t we all be strengthened by it?
What is the point of trying at all if number 1 is reality?
I get tired of trying to be God, so number 2 would never work out for me…
Number 3 is just right, I get to do my job, and let everyone else do their’s… and in my eyes seems to be the most logical possibility.
I would add that in my opinion sharing Jesus’ story with the world is not primarily for the sake of the world. No matter the response – or the definite means to salvation – we continue to tell the story because Jesus deserves for it to be told.
First, I find it somewhat sad that you feel the need to defend your terminology before you even get started. I assume you are trying to defuse any Christian backlash that may stem from your words. What does that say about the way we Christians view the world?
To answer your question, I feel that #3 is the view that leaves the most room for God to work. We should believe that Jesus is the only way but, despite our interpretations and/or convictions, shouldn’t we also leave room for God to be bigger than us? Jesus himself didn’t spend much time begging people to follow him or trying to convince anyone that he is the only way. What does this say about God? I think it says that God can (and does) work in the margins of Christianity.
Thanks for the thought food, Wade.
For me it would be somewhere in between 2 and 3, and hinges on the idea of lostness.
The theme of #2 seems to be primarily escapism, Jesus being the only way to escape the fires of hell and eternal punishment. It is rooted in the modern mindset and has basically been our message for a long time, to our detriment. The theme of #3 seems rooted in the postmodern mind, heavy on offering the blessings of kingdom living and extremely light, almost non-existent on the idea of lostness. No one wants to say that anyone is lost or even confirm the possibility of it.
Thought #1: If Scripture says something about lostness, we can’t afford to move away from it.
Thought #2: If Scripture says salvation is in no one but Jesus, that there is one mediator between God and man, we shouldn’t be afraid to say it, because it is not us saying it, but God saying it. It’s not judging, not condemning, not narrow, arrogant, or even modern.
Thought #3: It will be God who determines what each person has done with what he has been given, because it’s a heart matter that we really aren’t qualified to determine. Plus, He can save anyone He wants and I won’t be upset or call Him unfair.
Jesus deserves to be presented as Savior and Lord. #2 seems to present Him solely as Savior, focusing on forgiveness and escaping the fires of hell. #3 seems heavy on the lordship of Christ, but light on the idea of escaping death. If He is both, then we must somehow craft our message to capture the essence of both. Jesus as Savior comes easy for people who want to have their past wiped away. Lord comes hard because it demands death and change. That’s why I would lean heavy on #3 but not lose the concept of #2.
I’m finding it difficult to comment because Jesus offered more than a ticket to heaven. As long as we continue to think within this limited understanding of salvation it’s difficult to ever truly get at the heart of what the mission of God is all about. God has invited us to join him in his work to reconcile the world (to bring heaven to earth, making disciples).
These options remain limited in their scope. I believe they fail to account for the greater purposes of God. As far as judgment, God didn’t invite us to join him in that (Romans 12:19; I Corinthians 5:12-13). In my estimation, #3 of the options comes closest to reaching the heart of God’s mission as it involves us.
I enjoyed everyone’s comments. Thanks Wade for the questions.
I wish #1 were true. I really do. But that’s not what the Bible teaches. #1 isn’t really universalism, is it? Wouldn’t it be more akin to pluralism? I would call universalism a fourth possibility on your list, that Jesus is Lord, and every person from every tribe and nation will come to the place where they eventually recognize that fact. It is similar to pluralism, but in the end, Jesus is still honored and glorified. If you take the Bible literally when it says that at the name of Jesus, every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the Father, that could mean that every person, Buddhists, Muslims, atheists, etc., will eventually figure it out, and bow the knee to Christ. Wouldn’t that be sweet? I’m not saying that’s what I believe, but there is some validity to it, more so than the idea of pluralism.
I have friends in the Buddhist community, and the Muslim community as well. They’re great people, but their way of life pales in comparison to the Christian life, and its accompanying freedom. There is nothing that compares to being a Christian.
Since God doesn’t want any to be lost, then part of being like God means being a hope-so universalist. On the other hand, if the Gospel is true, then Christians have no other choice than to announce it to a world that is, indeed, lost and dying and dearly loved by God.
I’m with Josh on this one. The traditional (and by traditional let’s be honest, it’s a relatively new tradition) understanding of salvation is too narrow an understanding/definition. “For God so loved THIS world.” But that’s a whole ‘nother discussion.
I also think 2 and 3 have the right balance. It is sad that the concepts of 2 have to be consided as judgemental.
When you present the bad news / good news then both the wrath of God and his love is proclaimed.Paul in Romans 1 :18 – 3 : 20 presents the overall bad news of sin and God’s wrath against all sin. Then in 3 : 21 he begins to present the good news of grace through faith . The good news of what God has done through Jesus Christ for our salvation. It is not for any of us to make the final judgements. But it is not wrong to teach that faith and obedience in Christ is needed to be saved and that scripture teaches that the failure to do so means a soul will be lost. It is what scripture teaches that counts , not human wisdom, psychology or emotion. The word.
Wade, while these are the typical options presented to this question, I want to question your definition of salvation as “going to heaven when you die”. (My guess is you would too???) I don’t “salvation” – however defined – is something that is necessarily on the agendas of the other great religions. Maybe the first grounds for discussion is to actually understand the goals and purposes of each respective faith before we work out a typology of Christian engagement with them.
Wade, while these are the typical options presented to this question, I want to question your definition of salvation as “going to heaven when you die”. (My guess is you would too???) I don’t think “salvation” – however defined – is something that is necessarily on the agendas of the other great religions. Maybe the first grounds for discussion is to actually understand the goals and purposes of each respective faith before we work out a typology of Christian engagement with them.
Personally – I wish #1 were true too. I do – no buts.
I don’t like the concept of an eternal hell for any human being – regardless of how evil they are.
Faith is so difficult for many – and the “calling” and “election” of God is so controversial – that I personally don’t get the whole concept of hell – even though I do understand that it is the consequense of man’s choice… But I still don’t get it.
I wish there would be consequenses for all of our lives – but not eternal damning ones. That doesn’t make sense to me completely.
So – my response to the question/issue would be:
#4 “Put Christ’s Way on Display and ONLY entertain the ‘fear factor’ issue if it comes up – and respond to it by calling people TOWARD the eternal glory, reign, and rule of God to be on earth as it is in heaven .”
The motive for evangelism love for Christ and people – part of that is to believe that people without Jesus have no assurance of eternity with God.
The Messiah Jesus, was born of a virgin, and was mysteriously God in the flesh.
Jesus came to preach good news to the poor, to bind up the broken hearted and set captives free. He lived a perfect life proclaiming the arrival of God’s Kingdom demonstrated through the power of the Spirit. He was rejected by many, crucified, buried, and rose again.
His death and resurrection bring hope to all creation. Through Jesus, all have an opportunity to be forgiven and God reconciles men to himself, to each other, and renews all things through the way of Christ.
Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. Everyone who accepts his sacrifice as the sufficient payment for thier sins, he gives the Holy Spirit who leads man into all truth through a communal life of worship and a missional expression of our faith.
Followers of Christ put the resurrected Christ on display to a broken and hurting world and lets God deal with the eternal consequences of all human activity.
The day is coming when Jesus will return and reclaim this world, the earth’s pain will cease and God will dwell with us on a new and restored creation.
I’m participating in the mission of putting Christ’s Way on display to the broken and hurting world and I’m inviting the world to believe, experience, and embrace the Way of Christ because I believe it is absolute truth and worthy of my all out pursuit!
Love like #1.
Treat the people you minister to like a #3.
Live your life as #2 and never hide that you believe it.
I like the idea of heaven, not because I want to live forever, but because it’s where I can be with Christ. Not because it is an alternative to hell (I can’t quite wrap my mind around that either, Jeff), but because I will be with people I love again, and I cling to that hope whenever I feel like “grieving like someone who has no hope.”
But even if I didn’t have the promise of heaven, I would still be a Christian.
Christ has freed me. Heaven vs. Hell, is not my motivation. I am free from sin and its power, free from despair and hopelessness, free from loneliness and the judgments of others. I can “cast it off” those things, “set my eyes on the prize”, and “run my race.” I’m not running just to win, I’m running like a cripple made whole, I’m running to run!
It’s not fear of hell, it’s not even hope of heaven, it’s the strength to live now and live well.
It is for freedom Christ has set us free.
Wow, good thoughts. Now I wish I hadn’t been first. 😀
I think Jenni summed it up best in #16.
#1 – Nothing more than universalist heresy
#2 – The conservative, fundamentalist formula, with sinners prayer certainly implied
#3 – The way of a good Presbyterian
Having read this and the previous entries without comment I will conclude the following, as it relates to world religions and the like:
The story that the Church tells is an all-encompassing story. It is not just one more story among many. It takes second place to no other story. It is the story within which all other stories must make their sense. If they refuse, and insist on telling their own story on their own terms, they soon deteriorate into chaos.
Maybe living in a pluralistic socitety requires some give and take or what the pomo/emergent types call “conversation.” and maybe it takes the pressure off to say, “hey we don’t have God figured out…he can save whoever he wants, however he wants and Christ’s blood is more than enough to accomplish that.” The problem there is it neuters our story, and the power of our story is that it calls men and women to actually worship Jesus, not just be saved. So which world religion makes a worshipper of Christ? Which world religion commands belief in God and his Son, Jesus Christ, with all exclusivity implied?
I would say whatever possiblity leads to that end, would be the correct one.
As it is currently written, #2 misses the mark… and so does #3… but for different reasons all together (currently, I don’t have the words to articulate either reason)… With the exception of the reference that Jenni made, I find absolutely no substance in #1…
At first glance 3 is the “answer” to 2’s short-comings… But I something about that doesn’t sit well with me…
Here’s the tension for me:
What am I supposed to do with these words from Jesus, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”?
This is my rough, and initial response… Please forgive, I’m on a quick break at work and haven’t had time to really think through this…
I also believe that Jenni says it best. But I would only add this: People should be prepared to be surprised in Heaven. When you get there, I believe this is what will surprise you: 1) people you thought never would get there/should be there will be standing next to you; 2) People you were sure were going to be there are not; and 3) Based on the previous two surprises, You may find yourself asking, “What am I doing here?”. Me, I know I will be saying to myself as I look at everyone in Heaven, “I don’t know about all of these people, but Thank God I am the one Jesus loved.” Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me! Great entry Wade!
You know Wade –
I beleive that alot of us wish we were more evangelistic – but in reality – not many of us are doing really well at doing something about what we do believe.
Most believe 2 but do nothing about it.
Most use 3 as a crutch for not having to actually have any conviction and look a really nice person who doesn’t believe in Jesus in the eyes and tell them that they believe Jesus is THE savior of the world and is THE mediator between God and man.
Then again – we gravitate toward people who are like us – and therefore – we typically don’t ever make intentional contact with people who don’t believe what we do – and therefore can never actually do something about what we halfheartely believe.
Why do we debate so strongly about that which we’re very unlikely to do very much about?
I’m clearing up a little bit here after lunch…
I had a 2 hour face to face conversation with a man who has lost all hope in his heart toward there being any believeable evidence in Christ as savior.
I don’t want to come accross as smug or as having figured everything out – I haven’t – but I have a little bit of a beef about all of the philosophy thrown around with so little action.
Go to http://www.marshill.org and just put your cursor on the homepage jpeg.
I like the honesty that one of our country’s leading congregations has about the mission and what they’re about.
Ok: Question – How can a follower of Jesus be anything other than that which they are following
If Jesus said: “Come follow me and I will make you …”
Then “following him” is designed to “make us” something.
If people were to follow the church today – what would they become?
Perhaps many of them would become apathetic #2 adherants that live the Christian mission as if #1 were true… and wishing all the while they could find a greater power to become more.
We all want to believe and become more.
We want God and we want to honor Christ – sooooo… do it.
… I also think there’s a balance between 2 & 3 that isn’t implied in the 3 categories – but the categories worked – good post again.
I keep wondering why we are so reluctant to speak about hell and eternal condemnation. Jesus taught about it many times. He died to save us from hell. Is it not his dieing for our sins that we remember each week in the taking of the Supper ? Paul was motivated by the fear of the Lord as well as compelled by the love of Jesus Christ. It just seems to me what is needed is a great zeal and passion for reaching out to a lost and dying world and then let the final judgement be decided at the judgement seat of Christ. Loving people includes our concern for their eternal destiny.
Ray, I’m reluctant to speak about hell and eternal condemnation because I can’t convince myself that they are one and the same. Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. Eternal condemnation may simply mean that when you die, you die; you don’t get to live again with Jesus.
Of course, I’m not sold on the notion of “heaven” that I grew up with, either. What I read about is a new heaven and a new earth, a place where God dwells with us and we reign with Him. I read about being given an incorruptible body, not a wispy spiritual presence. I don’t understand it all, but it’s enough for me to know that God is there.
So if you can explain where you get the idea that Jesus saves us from hell, as opposed to taking us home with Him when our lives end, I’d be more open to the idea of talking about it with lost people.
But for me – and I imagine for most folks – it’s enough to lift up Christ, and let Him draw all men unto him.
Keith, It is because of several passages : Matt. 5 :22 , Matt. 25 : 46 , Mark 16 : 16 ,Luke 13 :3 , 2 Cor 5 : 11 ,Gal 5 : 21 and many more. And I agree , lift up Jesus. Preach Jesus. Live in His footsteps. I know many will not agree with me but I still believe that it is not unloving but very much a ministry of compassion to reach as many souls as possible. If eternal condemnation is not a reality then it is hard for me to understand why Jesus had to die to turn away the wrath of God. Yes God does love us but His wrath is against sin. Jesus in His death becomes the sacrificial atonement to turn away the wrath. That is what I believe the scriptures teach.
#3 seems to work real well for the people you don’t know that well. It seems honest and non-judgemental(an idea we’ve taken way too far). But what about for your kids. I teach my kids that Christ is the only way. If you love someone, your wife, kids, parents, church family, you don’t take a passive approach. #3 markets better to the world. It’s more inviting. But Jesus told the rich young ruler to sell everything he had. I never got the impression that it went over well. But it was spiritual honesty. People need the truth from us. If we are passive and have a “take it or leave it” attitude, they may not believe the truth. I had a non-believer on a college campus one time arguing with me. He said if I believed what I said, then how could I go to sleep at night knowing all those people were going to perish. He has a point. But at the end of it all, I know God abides with me. That is how I sleep.
I’m glad I engaged this discussion. Now I have more questions than answers, which gives me fuel to continue my journey.
Thanks everyone for the conversation.
Ray, I agree that Christ’s death was necessary to save us from God’s wrath, and that is definitely something to preach about. However, have you considered that God’s wrath may not be hell? Or at least not just hell?
Romans 1:18-32 speaks a great deal about God’s wrath, and what Paul mentions over and over is not hell, but instead the key phrase “he gave them over.”
God’s wrath, in Romans at least, is carried out even in your present life. You become a slave to sin, you become separated from God, your sins consume you, and God’s wrath is letting them.
Hell may be a good motivator for some people, but it is so easy to escape by just “not believing” in hell. Many people believe in heaven, but fewer and fewer believe in hell. However, people watch others being consumed by sin every day, suicides, drug addictions, epidemic STDs, homicides, divorce rates skyrocketing. Their sins pull them into a living hell, daily separation from hope, peace, and love, separation from God.
Christ died to save us from God’s wrath, yes, but more than that, he died to bring us into communion with our creator, that’s more motivating to me than hell could ever be.
Jenni,
I think you’ve hit on something of great value. What you’re saying is that Christ’s death empowers us into relationship with God (implying action)rather than enabling us into a life of complacency (because the hard work has already been done for us)? I like that view. Even in his death, Christ was still teaching us to fish rather than giving us a fish to eat.
Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” He also said, “…the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.” These verses reflect opportunities when Jesus taught his own disciples #2 – that Jesus is in fact the only way. At the same time, he tells us that when it comes to actually granting life — it’s all up to Jesus in the end. So, I’ll continue to teach that only those who come to the Father through Jesus have found the way the truth and the life. And I’ll teach and put my faith in this: That Jesus will give life to whomever he wishes. Where else can we go? Jesus has the words of life.
The statement went something like, “I’m a universalist who believes in hell.” The interviewee said that if we believe in an age of accountability, this assumes that all are going to heaven if they die before this age. Not my opinion, heard it somewhere on a podcast. But, this leads to the argument…
What if #1 is true until we realize that #2 is the only way, and that #3 is our call to work for the sake of the kingdom and those who don’t understand #2? “Love ’em all…then let God sort it out in the end.”
Jenni, I absolutely agree with you about God’s wrath being more than hell. There is not a week goes by that I am not having to counsel people who have crashed and burned from lives filled with sin and selfishness. And always I speak to them about their need to be in a right relationship with Jesus. The sad fact is how many Christians I have to counsel with about their lives and the consequences of sin.
You are right that more people are rejecting the idea of a hell. It is a strategy of Satan to keep the world from being concerned about eternal life. Put it off untill it is too late.
Also more are also rejecting the the truth that there is a heaven or even that God exists.
Even though there is the rejection there are those who are accepting the truth and want to save their souls from eternal condemnation and live forever in the presence of God. It is happening all over the world on a daily basis.
I still believe that the truth about hell and escaping hell and the wrath of God is a good motivator along with the love of Jesus. It was the twin motivations of the apostle Paul. No, some will not listen but others will. Let us pray for God to give us open doors for evangelism and then let us tell all who will listen to the good news that sets us free from the consequences of the bad news about sin. It has been my experience in 36 years of preaching and teaching.
Very good point. I rarely hear a sermon that takes a hard stand on condemning sins and spelling out consequences. It’s so much easier to be PC, than it is to be controversial and easier still to just avoid uncomfortable absolutes.
The truth is “feel good sermons” may make you feel good, but they don’t challenge you, and I know I don’t remember a single word from any sermon that didn’t challenge me to evaluate my life a bit.
I know I’m new to this blog, but I have a hard time seeing anything but #2 being the answer
Number 3 is not a new thought. In fact, I first became aware of its implication while reading “The passion for Christ” by Oswald Chambers.
Two statements by Ozi turned my thoughts concerning evangelism.
First, he said, “We have to be careful lest we make the passionate watchwords—”a passion for souls” and “a passion for Christ” into rival cries. The great passion which the Holy Ghost works in us, whereby He expresses the Redemption of our Lord in and through us in practical ways, is the passion for Jesus Christ Himself.”
Second, he wrote, “God does not ask us to believe that men can be saved; we cannot pull men out of hell by believing that we can pull them out. When we see a man in hell, every attitude of our souls and minds are paralysed; we cannot believe he can be saved. God does not ask us to believe that he can be saved; He asks us whether we will believe that Jesus believes He can save him. The facts of life are awful, men’s minds are crushed by the terrible facts of evil all around. When the Holy Ghost indwells us, He does not obliterate those facts, but slowly through all the features of crime and evil and wrong, there emerges the one great wonderful Figure, the Lord Jesus Christ, and the men possessed by the Holy Ghost, and having the Redemption of Christ inwrought in them, say “Lord, Thou knowest,” and the saving work goes on.”
The question is not by what method men are saved, but who does the saving? No one comes to the Father except through Jesus. People come to Jesus through evangelism, the telling of His story. However, the person who knowingly rejects Jesus has been just as effcetively evangelized as the one who accepts Him. e.g. The rich young ruler.
The problem with #1 and to a lesser extent #2 is that they are based on what one believes to be true about God rather than what is true. No matter if all are saved or only those who have called on Jesus, they will be saved by God’s mercy.
watchman Nee says that “Hell is the full extent that a sinner can tolerate of the prescence of God.” So even in seperating those who can not tolerate His prescence from Him, God is being merciful.