1. Present day Christians are not very good at accepting outsiders (sinners who do not follow Jesus).
2. Present day Christians are far too accepting of sinful behavior from insiders (Christians who have been following Jesus long enough to know better).
Shouldn’t it be just the opposite?
Any thoughts about why this is so?
Telling Stories, Asking Questions, Learning Lessons
present day christians are being faithful to what they joined when they started following christ. it may seem simplistic, but people live the way they do because it the socially acceptable norm for their particular church.
so i’m not sure i’d start with these two problems. it seems these are symptoms of greater problems to me.
perhaps we should be asking:
why is it socially unacceptable to become so ghettoized in our culture?
why is it socially unaccecptable to show others who we are with all our flaws in the church?
what about our church that penalizes or otherwise discourages the messiness of our lives?
what is it that we individually perceive or pick up on that threaten us and our personal well-being in a church that keeps us from showing who we really are?
What is it in us as individuals that encourages us to see our own personal flaws as less offensive to God, that those outside the church?
What does our church do or say that reinforeces these thoughts?
What does how we interact with each other communicate about the beauty of the gospel? or our openness to others who have yet to join us?
In what ways does our (mis)understanding of the gospel undermine how we relate and connect to others?
What about other theology?
Perhaps the problem with present day christianity is that we have lost touch with what it means to be christian? We know know what other expect, we can play that game in the church. But to what extend does that undermine our humanity and our faithfullness?
just some thoughts.
Let us not just seclude this problem to present day Christians; Let us not forget the multiple conflicts in the first century between Jew and Gentile (insider vs. outsider- eating meat sacrificed to idols; circumcised or not; who can receive these miraculous gifts). The insider/outsider problem has always been there! The most satisfying answer I have heard to why this happens is because we are all “tribal” creatures; that is, when diversity surfaces our natural tendency is to form a tribe (insider) and maintain both“separateness” and“superiority” to other tribes (outsiders).
phil,
you’ve got me thinking!
What if we view a “christian” as a static positional sort of status, rather than a ever evolving, ever exploring way.
These two guys are thinnking much deeper than me. Here is what I first thought of:
I think it goes along with the same reason we hurt the people we love most! Often, we say things to people we love something we would never say to someone else. Why? Because we know they will love us anyway!
I think we fall in the same trap at church. We continue to sin and allow it in church because we know we can! We will still be loved and we will not “be thrown out.”
To not accept those outside the church comes from just being too involved inside the church. We have to move outside the walls to the outside and get to know people. I don’t do a very good job of this, but I know I need to do better.
some of the problem may be b/c we’ve got our (hang on to your big-boy thesaurus) “hamartialogical taxonomy” upside-down.
we think the little sins are big ones, and we think the big sins are little ones.
so…adultery and drunkenness? that’s super-bad. we won’t stand for it in our church.
gossip and pride? not so bad. everyone struggles with that a little.
The issue is one of code.
There remains an understood code in the church, relating to how we manage our sin and the perception thereof. Long time church goers know what it means to sew a suit of fig leaves together, thus hiding all the shameful and embarassing facts of human existence while at the same time promoting their own righteousness.
Our fear of outsiders is essentially our fear that they will break the code, and force us to deal with their sin, and our own, right out in the open where God has called us to do it.
Jay,
Interesting insight. So we become fearful of those outside the church code because they reveal who we really are. Therefore we try to teach the code of conduct (upside-down in many cases) first before we truly let them into the church… to avoid disrupting the harmony. Sounds like a serious breakdown in the practice of confession. Great insight, Jay.
Jay, great provocative questions man. I’d peg our most basic problem to grace and lack of knowledge and experience of the generosity of God. Apart from that knowledge and experience, we are fundamentally an insecure people. At our theology cafe last week we talked about confession, our lack of the practice, and what it means for our formation in Christ. Man.. we carry amazing amounts of guilt and shame and that stuff is TOXIC. In a meeting here the other night with alan roxburgh we were talking about the power of generative conversations. He commented that we simply don’t have these in most faith communities; we are too fearful. The result.. we have people not free to share their real stories.
Wonderful post Wade.
I believe that the church has failed to make disciples.
Committed Christians who have a zeal for doing the will of God.
We as Christians need to have and enjoy the relationship that we have in Christ Jesus. In that relationship we understand that Jesus doesn’t want us to make exuses or lighten the view of our sinful nature.
I think we need to strive to be the light to the world.
We need to come across the world as people of hope, forgiveness and freedom for the ties of this world.
Again, wonderful post.
I hope you have a wonderful wekend.
Well said! We look at people through our eyes, rather than God’s. When that happens, we lose the passion for people that Jesus personified.
Wade,
you are totally right friend. I have even found myself there. I think its because we’ve been pampered way to much in our lifestyles around God. Maybe too complacent? Who knows. I do know that we have forgotten our childhood view. Everyone is loved through the eyes of a child and accepted. Hugs are always given. and laughter always heard.
I’d put at least some of the blame on our consumerist view of things, including spirituality, in the West.
We aren’t great with “outsiders” because we don’t want the boat rocked or the good thing we have getting messed up. We don’t bother “insiders” about their behavior for much the same reason, except also that we are mostly focused on what we are getting out of church.
I don’t think I’m really getting at what I’m thinking here, but the gist of it is that we just want to be comfortable. This is what most “good” marketing offers, isn’t it? Individual comfort.
It always seemed to me that church people (myself included at times) only condemn the sins they don’t commit, rather than only condemning outsiders.
You’re not likely to catch a church member confronting another about their pride or greed (though they might gossip about it), but see what happenes if someone is seen in public with a glass of wine (more gossip).
I agree with the “big sin”, “little sin” problem. We just have this unspoken idea that “these” sins are ok, because we’ll be forgiven, but “those” sins mean you’re a bad person.
Great question. I think it’s easy to judge those we don’t know and easy to overlook the sins of our friends/acquaintences. I think this is because it’s more awkward relationally to actually lovingly confront someone… as opposed to clucking away like pharisees at a distance.
I just read a section by Hauerwas that perfectly addresses the topic:
” …the more we feel the necessity to protect ourselves from any possible challenge. As a result we expand the circle of friends very carefully because we intuitively know that we must not welcome any into our lives who might raise questions that challenge our illusions. Our “circle of friends” in fact becomes a conspiracy of intimacy to protect each of our illusions… We thus fear the stranger who comes into our life uninitiated or unacquainted with “our way of thinking and doing things.” Often the stranger, insufficiently schooled in our customs, asks a question for which there is no answer from the perspective of our world. We learn to handle such situations through ridicule or intolerance… And more often than not strangers “come around” to our way of seeing things, learning to forget their first awkward questions or only remembering them as a sign of their ignorance or naivete.”
-The Peaceable Kingdom p143
Sounds like Stanley agrees with me…
This is one of the most insight comments ever. I never thought about it this way, but this is too true. This is an interesting paradox.
http://www.matthewsblog.waynesborochurchofchrist.org
Wade:
What an interesting blog. You were once a stranger to the Brotherhood of Christ. Now, everyone seems to know you (flaws & all). You think outside the box. You challenge our thought processes on various religious issues. My prayer is that the Holy Spirit will guide you (and us) into more truths to consider. Great discussion. Loved Russ and Jay’s comments. Insightful.
I’m reminded of this wise observation, with respect to Wade’s first statement:
Believe – Behave – Belong (Sinful model of acceptance)
vs.
Belong – Believe – Behave (Jesus’ model acceptance)
And I have personal observation, with respect to Wade’s second statement and Jay’s first comment:
It seems to me that when a person accepts God’s invitation to belong, they subsequently commit to having their beliefs and behaviors challenged/transformed over and over again.
At first people find the change brilliant and attractive. We often marvel at the passion and zeal a new Christ follower exhibits remembering our early days. But the road to Christ-likeness is really long. And quite honestly it’s an ugly thing to watch unfold. Two steps forward, five steps back. Pretty soon, the appeal is gone. After a while you become aware that people don’t want to see you work through this challenge/reform process. You’ve left everything you knew behind when you followed Jesus; and your sense of integrity tells you not to leave the group. So you wrongly choose to put on the mask, and shield the eyes of those without the stomach to see the gruesome become glorious. And so the cycle is perpetuated.
1. Present day Christians are not very good at accepting outsiders (sinners who do not follow Jesus).
Outsiders? Who are they? The question is are they one of His kids.
I love both my kids… Rather they are bad or not.
That’s how that cool guy from Nazereth is with me. I was a very bad boy… But he loved me anyways.
I will never leave you or forsake you
2. Present day Christians are far too accepting of sinful behavior from insiders (Christians who have been following Jesus long enough to know better).
Were all sinners.. Saved by grace… Each of us works out our own salvation. Cleansed…Ya dig?
The church is too caught up in fighting against sinners (causes)instead of loving them..The way Jesus did.
This is why Alcoholic’s Anonymous is so big and in unity… Because they accept ANYBODY right where they are….
Hey dude… I grew up in your church… My parents are still members..I’m gonna come check ya this sunday..
Wade,
The problem I have with your post and the comments that followed, is that you assume as fact your assertion. Is it true that Christians do NOT accept outsiders but readily accept the sin of insiders? Really? I don’t think so. In fact, I think that your statement only highlights the difficulty of framing the argument in such terms.
I think it depends on what you mean by accepting outsiders and too accepting of the sins of insiders. ( I know I am late to this conversation, just found this blog today.) In my experiences, when I stood up to church leaders far too willing to keep unchallenged the sins of insiders I was soundly rebuffed and marginalized. In fact, the argument goes, if we are too hard on ourselves how can we possibly show ourselves to be loving to outsiders. We end up standing for nothing except the social experiences of gathering together once a week and, as is convenient, engaging in service projects for the community. No guilt for sin, but plenty of guilt for non-participation. I agree, something wrong here.
“why is it socially unacceptable to become so ghettoized in our culture?”
Could you explain what you mean by this. I am unfamiliar with the term “ghettoized.”